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 Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:58:14 -0600 (MDT)
Date:	Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:58:59 -0700
From:	Curtis Sasaki <Curtis.Sasaki@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: desktop
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To:	John D Groenveld <jdg117@elvis.arl.psu.edu>
Cc:	Danese.Cooper@Sun.COM, alban.richard@Sun.COM
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On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 14:24, John D Groenveld wrote:

> In message <4AD89E25-02A3-11D8-A79C-0003939BCBDE@sun.com>, Curtis Sasaki writes
> :
> >thanks for the background John, clear and concise.  I like it.  Some of 
> >the ideas you propose make a lot of sense.  I haven't had any direct 
> >involvement in the Solaris "councils" so maybe it would be good to 
> >listen in once and awhile.
> 
> Currently, Sun hosts teleconferences with invited members of the community.
> I suspect you or a subordinate can obtain agendas and meeting minutes via
> Alban.
> 
> >thanks for being a stockholder, I am too and I like you want to see 
> >value in our shares...  Glad you are rational about understanding that 
> >it is not zero cost.  Sometimes a few folks within Sun think it is....
> 
> Its unfortunate that we weren't able to communicate to the bean counters
> that there was some cost for dropping the platform from StarOffice's
> release train, especially painful now that Sun's chosen get Solaris x86
> back on board.
> 
> [snipped]
> 
> >I'll have to find out how to get involved with this.  I haven't to 
> >date.  Alban Richard is the product manager so I get a lot of feedback 
> >through him.
> 
> Does Danese Cooper work in your organization?


While Danese doesn't work in my organization, she is in the software
organization and we do get a lot of chances to work together.  Danese is
a fantastic resource who works tirelessly with the many communities. 
She and I are involved with openoffice.org, Mozilla.org, Gnome, and
others.  It takes time, $$, and resources to do this and she's probably
logged more flight miles than anyone working at all the community
meetings, etc.  I'm sure everyone can learn from Danese.

> 
> I think she has some expertise in managing customer community groups 
> and while I'm confident the Solaris group will eventually find an 
> effective format for interfacing with the Solaris x86 customers, she 
> may have some lessons learned to offer Alban's team.
> 
> Additionally, there's been some thoughts bouncing around the community
> about taking some components of Solaris (specifically hardware drivers)
> and releasing them as part of Sun Community Source project. I know
> that sunsource.net is part of her bailiwick.


yes you are right about sunsource.net

> 
> Additionally, the OpenOffice and Java community teams are frequent
> exhibitors at O'Reilly Open Source and ApacheCon conferences and 
> Sun is playing catch up at promoting the Solaris platform as a friend 
> and an enticing product for those communities. Perhaps there's room
> for more collaboration.


I copied Danese on this for her opinion.

> 
> I think the Desktop unit has expertise and knowledge to offer the
> Solaris unit along with its Java Desktop System components.


I hope we do... : )   

> 
> >> For instance, one idea bounced around the Solaris x86 mailing list
> >> and recently brought up again by a community representative is to
> >> place evaluation copies of Solaris x86 in StarOffice media kits.
> >
> >Good idea, but adding any additional cost to the BOM in the retail box 
> >is tough.  To keep the price low, we need to watch every penny, as 
> >support cost $ and the channel co-marketing $ cost $$.  I can't lose 
> >money per copy or I'll be tossed out of the company pretty quick.  For 
> >the Sun Developer bundles, we could do something like this though.
> 
> Part of Sun's engagement with customer community definitely requires
> customers to appreciate that we're not all knowing, but also that Sun 
> explain as best it can why certain suggestions aren't feasible or 
> cost prohibitive.
> 
> Its interesting that you mention Developer bundles because besides
> StarOffice, SunONE Studio has an existing retail channel that members of
> the Solaris customer community have previously suggested Solaris could 
> piggy-back on.


We also are planning to deliver a Developer Edition of our JDS.  This
would include the tools as well so developers get everything with a
single install, part number.  

> 
> The Developer Tools unit also has experience with customer advisory councils 
> which might be helpful to both you and Alban.


Yes.  I think that is what lead to Project Rave.  We have to make it
very easy to deploy Java (both client side solutions and server driven
solutions).

> 
> Besides StarOffice, I hope you can help us see more collaboration between
> the Desktop, Solaris, and all of Jonathan's units in these and other areas.


We've come a long way in the first year after Jonathan took over the
helm.  Obviously, we have a lot more work ahead of us, both in the
product side as well as in the interactions with the community.  But we
are all listening and doing the best we can balancing all the tradeoffs
and requirements.  No shortage of interesting discussions...  


> 
> Thank you,
> John
> groenveld@acm.org
> 

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On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 14:24, John D Groenveld wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>In message &lt;4AD89E25-02A3-11D8-A79C-0003939BCBDE@sun.com&gt;, Curtis Sasaki writes
:
&gt;thanks for the background John, clear and concise.  I like it.  Some of 
&gt;the ideas you propose make a lot of sense.  I haven't had any direct 
&gt;involvement in the Solaris &quot;councils&quot; so maybe it would be good to 
&gt;listen in once and awhile.

Currently, Sun hosts teleconferences with invited members of the community.
I suspect you or a subordinate can obtain agendas and meeting minutes via
Alban.

&gt;thanks for being a stockholder, I am too and I like you want to see 
&gt;value in our shares...  Glad you are rational about understanding that 
&gt;it is not zero cost.  Sometimes a few folks within Sun think it is....

Its unfortunate that we weren't able to communicate to the bean counters
that there was some cost for dropping the platform from StarOffice's
release train, especially painful now that Sun's chosen get Solaris x86
back on board.

[snipped]

&gt;I'll have to find out how to get involved with this.  I haven't to 
&gt;date.  Alban Richard is the product manager so I get a lot of feedback 
&gt;through him.

Does Danese Cooper work in your organization?</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
While Danese doesn't work in my organization, she is in the software organization and we do get a lot of chances to work together.&nbsp; Danese is a fantastic resource who works tirelessly with the many communities.&nbsp; She and I are involved with openoffice.org, Mozilla.org, Gnome, and others.&nbsp; It takes time, $$, and resources to do this and she's probably logged more flight miles than anyone working at all the community meetings, etc.&nbsp; I'm sure everyone can learn from Danese.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
I think she has some expertise in managing customer community groups 
and while I'm confident the Solaris group will eventually find an 
effective format for interfacing with the Solaris x86 customers, she 
may have some lessons learned to offer Alban's team.

Additionally, there's been some thoughts bouncing around the community
about taking some components of Solaris (specifically hardware drivers)
and releasing them as part of Sun Community Source project. I know
that sunsource.net is part of her bailiwick.</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
yes you are right about sunsource.net
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
Additionally, the OpenOffice and Java community teams are frequent
exhibitors at O'Reilly Open Source and ApacheCon conferences and 
Sun is playing catch up at promoting the Solaris platform as a friend 
and an enticing product for those communities. Perhaps there's room
for more collaboration.</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
I copied Danese on this for her opinion.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
I think the Desktop unit has expertise and knowledge to offer the
Solaris unit along with its Java Desktop System components.</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
I hope we do... : )&nbsp;&nbsp; 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
&gt;&gt; For instance, one idea bounced around the Solaris x86 mailing list
&gt;&gt; and recently brought up again by a community representative is to
&gt;&gt; place evaluation copies of Solaris x86 in StarOffice media kits.
&gt;
&gt;Good idea, but adding any additional cost to the BOM in the retail box 
&gt;is tough.  To keep the price low, we need to watch every penny, as 
&gt;support cost $ and the channel co-marketing $ cost $$.  I can't lose 
&gt;money per copy or I'll be tossed out of the company pretty quick.  For 
&gt;the Sun Developer bundles, we could do something like this though.

Part of Sun's engagement with customer community definitely requires
customers to appreciate that we're not all knowing, but also that Sun 
explain as best it can why certain suggestions aren't feasible or 
cost prohibitive.

Its interesting that you mention Developer bundles because besides
StarOffice, SunONE Studio has an existing retail channel that members of
the Solaris customer community have previously suggested Solaris could 
piggy-back on.</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
We also are planning to deliver a Developer Edition of our JDS.&nbsp; This would include the tools as well so developers get everything with a single install, part number.&nbsp; 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
The Developer Tools unit also has experience with customer advisory councils 
which might be helpful to both you and Alban.</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
Yes.&nbsp; I think that is what lead to Project Rave.&nbsp; We have to make it very easy to deploy Java (both client side solutions and server driven solutions).
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
Besides StarOffice, I hope you can help us see more collaboration between
the Desktop, Solaris, and all of Jonathan's units in these and other areas.</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
We've come a long way in the first year after Jonathan took over the helm.&nbsp; Obviously, we have a lot more work ahead of us, both in the product side as well as in the interactions with the community.&nbsp; But we are all listening and doing the best we can balancing all the tradeoffs and requirements.&nbsp; No shortage of interesting discussions...&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><I>
Thank you,
John
groenveld@acm.org
</I></FONT></PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
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Email to Jonathan Schwartz 2003-10-21 Java Desktop Sales Seminar 2003-12-11 Email from Curtis Sasaki 2003-10-20
Reply to Curtis Sasaki 2003-10-20 Second Email from Curtis Sasaki 2003-10-19 Reply to Curtis Sasaki 2003-10-19
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